An Experiment...
Jan. 23rd, 2009 05:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ht_murrayAn experiment in how many ways I can insert my foot into my mouth in ten minutes or less. It's Friday night, so hopefully not many people will be around to laugh and point fingers. LOL.
I don't want to be one of those people who posts about wank every time it crosses my flist. I don't see the need to jump on the train, but at the same time, I'd be hard-pressed to read about it for over 24 hours and not have something to say.
That being said, this is not really about the wank. Ha! Fooled ya. I know what it's about now. I spent the better part of yesterday afternoon and this afternoon scouring wank_report and blah, blah, blah, cuz nothing's more likely to get my attention and make me want to snoop than people posting about something and saying the details aren't important. Details are important!! LOL.
So, yeah, I don't know any of the people involved. I friended one of them once, realize we had absolutely nothing in common and defriended promptly, not because people aren't allowed other opinions than my own but because I don't keep an flist for intellectual stimulation and debate material. I keep it for entertainment. I can read fic off the newsletter and spare myself the drama.
So, here's what's got my attention. Not what happened so much as how everyone responded. So much OMG! If my journal was outted to my family and friends, I'd just die.
This bothers me. I mean, I totally respect that, at the point this all happened, it's a little too late to question what was posted, and most likely deletion was the only option, and for people who are in the same boat where they've already said too much, obviously the flist cutting and locking down are pretty much the only remaining options.
But why are we posting things in our journals that we're not willing to accept responsibility for? What are we doing writing about gay people in all their 'out of the closet' glory while hiding under the desk?
I realize I'm pretty blunt sometimes. I realize this makes people uncomfortable sometimes, but I don't really have any secrets. Sure there have been times when I've been all, hush, hush, I"mma comment in your journal and then delete it so only you and I will know what I said, but I've pretty much gotten past all my hangups about what people think of me.
That's not to say I'm not flip about it sometimes. I write slash in the break room at work. I do. People ask me all the time what I'm writing. I grin and say, "an expose about Nampac and all the crap that goes on behind the scenes," which usually gets a laugh and gets people throwing ideas in my direction, because everyone's got dirt they wanna dish. And on occassion, I'll even say, 'gay porn' cuz none of them would believe it anyway. If someone were to call me on it, though, I'd own up. The only reason I don't talk about it openly is because most people don't know slash even exists, and they're probably quite happy in that bubble. Why pop it? If they were to find out, I'd man up. Hell, most of 'em know I'd totally kick their asses in a fight anyway. I grew up this little mouse that everyone made fun of and no one would play with, why should I care what anyone thinks of me now?
Does my family know? Not all of them. I've linked both of my sisters more than once, but as far as Iknow, they've never bothered to check it out. I'm a hundred percent sure my mother's sisters and their husbands would corner me at a family gathering and try to change my mind about gay rights and gay love and sexuality, but hell, they tried to cram their opinions down my throat before I wrote that stuff, why would it change now? And if they want to go all mightier than thou, tell me that's not real love, well, I can always throw back in their faces how their nieces and nephew were starving and lice-infested living in a house with no heat and no windows while they rounded up cargo containers full of clothing and food to send to Romania. Yeah, I have issues. Here they are. Again, I have no secrets.
But I just want to say, in addition that not all people are complete dicks. One time I said to a coworker (I'll call him Figaro, lol) that I was writing gay porn, and he was all like... oooh, girl on girl, and I shrugged and said, 'sure, why not?' And every day after that he came up with plot points to include in my story he was writing in my head,lol. It went something like this, a lesbian minister who leads a polygamist cult is in a love affair with her daughter who drives the cult bus, and who she conceived while she was in a coma and did not know she ever had... For real. Give people some credit.
It's too late to cover our tracks now, people. Just look at the wank report and how much is screencapped and passed around. Maybe it's time we put more thought into what we post and what we think of ourselves for posting it. To be honest, the one argument I'm not prepared to debate is, "Why are you doing this for free?" Because the answer is, because I'm afraid to put myself out there in the pro world and I don't feel worthy.
I will defend any content I post in here and my right to post it. So, friend or defriend away.
And that's not all I wanted to say, but I have to go to work now.
ETA: This is a huge ETA cuz I didn't get to say everything I wanted before i ran out of time. But I'm not trying to shift blame on anyone. This is all really unfortunate and of course the biggest fault lies with the person who maliciously acted without taking any responsibility for it. The whole point of this post is this, I think:
Don't give people that kind of power over you. Internet anonymity is only an illusion. You can lock, sock puppet, filter everything you want, but if it's really secret, then it shouldn't be posted at all. Anything you say can and will be used against you. And I don't know about you, but I don't know if I can really call myself a friend if I'm one person online and someone else entirely in real life.
And even people who only write Gen might want to think more about what they post online. Fandom personas can be just as conflicting. I mean,I'm sure Jensen and Jared both cringe at some of the things posted online by their own fangirls. How can you claim to be a true Jensen fangirl and then turn around and bash Jared in your journal, and how can you be a true Jared fangirl and bash Jensen? They're best friends, right? I wouldn't say anything about Jared that I wouldn't repeat in front of Jensen, and vice versa. I'm just saying, we'd all get along a lot better if we didn't give people knives to stab us in the back with in the first place. We're all entitled to our gossip, but that probably belongs on IM and not in long involved comment threads where anyone, including the boys and the boys' friends and family can read it.
Man, did my ETA get convoluted. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! But you already knew I was crazy, so whatever.
I don't want to be one of those people who posts about wank every time it crosses my flist. I don't see the need to jump on the train, but at the same time, I'd be hard-pressed to read about it for over 24 hours and not have something to say.
That being said, this is not really about the wank. Ha! Fooled ya. I know what it's about now. I spent the better part of yesterday afternoon and this afternoon scouring wank_report and blah, blah, blah, cuz nothing's more likely to get my attention and make me want to snoop than people posting about something and saying the details aren't important. Details are important!! LOL.
So, yeah, I don't know any of the people involved. I friended one of them once, realize we had absolutely nothing in common and defriended promptly, not because people aren't allowed other opinions than my own but because I don't keep an flist for intellectual stimulation and debate material. I keep it for entertainment. I can read fic off the newsletter and spare myself the drama.
So, here's what's got my attention. Not what happened so much as how everyone responded. So much OMG! If my journal was outted to my family and friends, I'd just die.
This bothers me. I mean, I totally respect that, at the point this all happened, it's a little too late to question what was posted, and most likely deletion was the only option, and for people who are in the same boat where they've already said too much, obviously the flist cutting and locking down are pretty much the only remaining options.
But why are we posting things in our journals that we're not willing to accept responsibility for? What are we doing writing about gay people in all their 'out of the closet' glory while hiding under the desk?
I realize I'm pretty blunt sometimes. I realize this makes people uncomfortable sometimes, but I don't really have any secrets. Sure there have been times when I've been all, hush, hush, I"mma comment in your journal and then delete it so only you and I will know what I said, but I've pretty much gotten past all my hangups about what people think of me.
That's not to say I'm not flip about it sometimes. I write slash in the break room at work. I do. People ask me all the time what I'm writing. I grin and say, "an expose about Nampac and all the crap that goes on behind the scenes," which usually gets a laugh and gets people throwing ideas in my direction, because everyone's got dirt they wanna dish. And on occassion, I'll even say, 'gay porn' cuz none of them would believe it anyway. If someone were to call me on it, though, I'd own up. The only reason I don't talk about it openly is because most people don't know slash even exists, and they're probably quite happy in that bubble. Why pop it? If they were to find out, I'd man up. Hell, most of 'em know I'd totally kick their asses in a fight anyway. I grew up this little mouse that everyone made fun of and no one would play with, why should I care what anyone thinks of me now?
Does my family know? Not all of them. I've linked both of my sisters more than once, but as far as Iknow, they've never bothered to check it out. I'm a hundred percent sure my mother's sisters and their husbands would corner me at a family gathering and try to change my mind about gay rights and gay love and sexuality, but hell, they tried to cram their opinions down my throat before I wrote that stuff, why would it change now? And if they want to go all mightier than thou, tell me that's not real love, well, I can always throw back in their faces how their nieces and nephew were starving and lice-infested living in a house with no heat and no windows while they rounded up cargo containers full of clothing and food to send to Romania. Yeah, I have issues. Here they are. Again, I have no secrets.
But I just want to say, in addition that not all people are complete dicks. One time I said to a coworker (I'll call him Figaro, lol) that I was writing gay porn, and he was all like... oooh, girl on girl, and I shrugged and said, 'sure, why not?' And every day after that he came up with plot points to include in my story he was writing in my head,lol. It went something like this, a lesbian minister who leads a polygamist cult is in a love affair with her daughter who drives the cult bus, and who she conceived while she was in a coma and did not know she ever had... For real. Give people some credit.
It's too late to cover our tracks now, people. Just look at the wank report and how much is screencapped and passed around. Maybe it's time we put more thought into what we post and what we think of ourselves for posting it. To be honest, the one argument I'm not prepared to debate is, "Why are you doing this for free?" Because the answer is, because I'm afraid to put myself out there in the pro world and I don't feel worthy.
I will defend any content I post in here and my right to post it. So, friend or defriend away.
And that's not all I wanted to say, but I have to go to work now.
ETA: This is a huge ETA cuz I didn't get to say everything I wanted before i ran out of time. But I'm not trying to shift blame on anyone. This is all really unfortunate and of course the biggest fault lies with the person who maliciously acted without taking any responsibility for it. The whole point of this post is this, I think:
Don't give people that kind of power over you. Internet anonymity is only an illusion. You can lock, sock puppet, filter everything you want, but if it's really secret, then it shouldn't be posted at all. Anything you say can and will be used against you. And I don't know about you, but I don't know if I can really call myself a friend if I'm one person online and someone else entirely in real life.
And even people who only write Gen might want to think more about what they post online. Fandom personas can be just as conflicting. I mean,I'm sure Jensen and Jared both cringe at some of the things posted online by their own fangirls. How can you claim to be a true Jensen fangirl and then turn around and bash Jared in your journal, and how can you be a true Jared fangirl and bash Jensen? They're best friends, right? I wouldn't say anything about Jared that I wouldn't repeat in front of Jensen, and vice versa. I'm just saying, we'd all get along a lot better if we didn't give people knives to stab us in the back with in the first place. We're all entitled to our gossip, but that probably belongs on IM and not in long involved comment threads where anyone, including the boys and the boys' friends and family can read it.
Man, did my ETA get convoluted. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! But you already knew I was crazy, so whatever.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 12:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 12:14 am (UTC)I think what was done is wrong and sad and I wish it hadn't happened but I refuse to let it change how I treat my friends damn it.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 12:18 am (UTC)I am disappointed that alot of stories might 'disappear' and that some people will no longer be posting in comms, because that will really suck:( Fandoms are notoriously 'cliquey' and something like this will just make them even more so:(
xoxoxoxo
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 01:06 am (UTC)I totally agree with you. (As we often share a fandom brain, lol). I was talking to my friend today about the "closeted existence" slash fandomers put themselves in. It's an interesting twist in something like a slash fandom where you have otherwise straight women writing gay characters and going "underground" about it or hiding it or feeling shame for it. Obviously there's the issue with mainstream culture seeing gay love as this deviant concept that people should be ashamed for associating with. And add on the issue with all of fandom production being labeled as "porn" and porn writing/porn reading = some deviant thing that is shunned by the mainstream. YET...I think it's sad that fandom at large sort of embraces a shame for both of these things -- for writing about gay people or for writing erotica. So yeah, as everyone suddenly locks down and "goes in the closet" about their fandom activity you have to stop and wonder...why are folks so ashamed of this? I would love to see a fandom movement where people weren't ashamed of being a fan or writing stories with gay characters (or stories depicting incest or sex or kinks, etc).
But again, it's always been drilled into me that everyone has to come out when they are ready, right? In this particular instance it's just about fannish activity, but b/c of the deviance associated with it, I do understand some of the worry folks have about outing themselves-- some have friends and family (and jobs) more accepting, others don't.
This is on my mind, and not to make the gay analogy, because I think there's such a whole world of difference and privilege when someone straight is just writing about gay characters compared to someone who is actually gay and having to tell their families or coworkers and risk being disowned -- but I was watching Milk this week and me and a bunch of friends had a vibrant discussion about Harvey Milk's campaign for everyone to come out of the closet -- to show the world that everyone has someone gay in their lives. So I've been in this mood where I'm like really feeling that idea of owning yourself, claiming yourself, being proud of who you are, what you produce.
So all that to say is, yeah I feel you, like always. ♥
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 01:18 am (UTC):)
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 01:14 am (UTC)They thought it would be funny to break into my room while I was in the bathroom peeing and get my user account information. Then they sent me an anonymous letter to my campus mailbox with printouts of the stuff I'd written/ had been reading. They thought I was going to be all embarrassed and hide in my room. I said fuck them, highlighted all the really good porny stuff and posted it on my dorm room door for anyone passing by to see if they wanted. This was during my popslash days.
I'm sorry if you have a problem with me and what I do, but you're not going to make me feel bad about it. I'll read/ write what I want to because I can. That's my right. The only reason I have Custom friend's groups on my main LJ and a fic LJ is because some of my friends just aren't into the same things I am. They respect me by not making commentary and I respect them by not throwing something in their faces that they aren't comfortable with seeing.
I understand certain things can be an issue when a job is taken into context. Hell, a girl who used to work at my lab was fired because she spent work time on a swinging couples networking/ porn site with her husband and the lab director at the time. I think it's all about being smart about things. Had she not done it while she was supposed to be working, we would have been none the wiser and she may have still been employed with us.
I guess the long and short of my rambling comment is that you need to be aware that once you hit that post button in LJ, it's out there for anyone to see unless you've got it locked down for your own personal viewing. Does it suck ass that someone had something malicious happen to them to cause this kind of outcome? Yes. Should some wanktards be banned from the public sector and procreating because they're too touched in the head to behave like a decent human being? Yes. Am I going to cut my flist back or lock down all my fic (if anyone really cares to read it) because of this? No. You either except me, quirks and all, or you don't.
I'll stop hijacking your journal now. :)
♥ you baby! *mwah*
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 01:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 01:56 am (UTC)I totally blame the confusing use of you on the Vicodin. This is the one time that saying it in French would be easier since they have a different word when using the plural form of the article "you."
*will stop being geeky now*
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 02:03 am (UTC)My boyfriend asks me what I'm reading and I tell him - porn. He gets a little squicked and I tell him it all works in his favor (less work for him to do later). I've admitted to friends I enjoy J2 porn - everybody has got their kink. I see nothing wrong with any of it.
It's unfortunate that society doesn't embrace everyone - so I can see where some people would feel more safe stretching their comfort levels and having almost an "alter ego" to express things that wouldn't be welcomed with open arms by the people in their RL circle. Overall, I think that lj should be a place where others are supported for their creativity and individuality, not crucified for it.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 02:15 am (UTC)I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand why somebody would be upset about being outed, but at the same time I don't think people should be ashamed of the things they're posting to the point of deleting stories or defriending people.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 02:15 am (UTC)To keep it simple, I agree with you.
The story about "Figaro" cracked me up.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 06:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-27 10:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-26 09:07 pm (UTC)I don't write fic, much, though I do comment when I'm so moved. My LJ is mostly opinion, and I pull few punches. I have no tailored filters--either you're friended or you're not, and the main reason I flock at all is that I'd prefer not to be Google-able, not because I'm ashamed of anything I have to say. I have an unusual and instantly recognizeable last name, and a couple of crackpots in my personal history who have, on occasion, made it their life's work to persecute and publicly harrass and embarrass my family. Just the name recognition alone is trigger enough for them, and so I do try to retain that bit of anonymity.
Otherwise, everyone and anyone on my flist gets the full benefit of my cognitive energies, and for the most part, I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
My heart breaks and my ire swells on behalf of the person who was outed. May those responsible live long and miserable lives plagued with multiple physical, mental, and emotional torments, from boils to itchy rashes to suppurating sores. And that's too good for them.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-26 09:26 pm (UTC)Yeah, I totally get you not wanting to be Googled. I've never tried to Google myself, but since I share a last name with a pretty powerful family on Days of Our Lives, I'm sure googling me probably turns up way more interesting people than myself.
I think what weirded me out most about this whole thing was that there really are no secrets. You can't be Googled under flock, but someone you trust can still screencap anything you post and pass it around. It might be frowned upon and downright dirty, but there's nothing but conscience to keep a person from doing it if they have a mind to.
I think most of all this post was about me actually wanting to know the people on my flist and not just some internet persona. I'd like to think if I ever met y'all in real life I could say exactly how I met you and what we talk about, what our common interests are without anyone trying to cover up anything, ya know?
And I love that you pull no punches. Punch away, bb.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-26 10:36 pm (UTC)Aside from a few baby things, like the Mary Sue meme or a birthday trifle, the only thing of note I've written in years is here. I owe it to a renegade extra from Night of the Lepus who bowled me over and then vanished into the dark. Random, and ouchy.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-27 09:35 am (UTC)I'm not going to stop and I can't be ashamed because it got me writing when I hadn't written original stuff in over 6 months. And it was killing me. So basically, my family knows I write fanfic, and that the reason is how it helps me keep the dry spells away. If they find it they find it--I'll deal with that then. (However, what I said in my post is still true. My family is scary and they could go pretty crazy if they ever fully connected the dots re: the subjects of my writing. For me 99% of the non-gen I write is in some way me working through my own shit especially re: my recent traumas. So I could tell them that and it would not be a lie, but they didn't care to hear my reasons when they found out I was kinky--I was periodically estranged. And un-estranged because of my assault. :P So.)
The "family really is batfuck, so please show a modicum of respect at least, and if you don't grok why here's an example" is why I made the post....
I still have people who I know are aware I have an LJ and have even "friended" me and are not friended back, who could easily see my fic on my main journal page since it's public and all. So if they really wanted to they could come after me. But these are people who I would assume my crazy family wouldn't take at face value, or so I can hope. :P
no subject
Date: 2009-01-27 10:03 am (UTC)My boss has thing. We run shit where I work. A whole lot of it. And sometimes it comes back and bites us in the ass in a big way, and when it does, we address it, and then he stands up in front of the employees and says, "Moving Forward," and then we do.
But it'd be a shame if we didn't learn anything. Didn't question what it is we are willing to stand behind and what we aren't. I'm not naive enough to believe everyone I know or have ever met would be okay with what I post online, but at least if they don't I can say, "Don't like that, then you don't like me," because that stuff's real and honest, and I have no shame in it. Take it or leave it.
That's not to say I don't sometimes consider f-locking just to spare people my emo moments. I'm not afraid of what I say when I get like that, but I can certainly respect that it's not fun to read and not everyone who adds me looking for schmoopy fic is going to want to see that side of me. Same as I've got some fic journals floating around just because I know not everyone who reads my Gen stuff wants to hang to come into my slashy journal to read it, and blah, blah, blah.
I'm not saying we shouldn't compartmentalize, just that we need to not have to worry that things in one compartment might know about the things in the other, because you can't just divide yourself up like that and still be whole.
Damn, I should not try to figure out what I am talking about at four in the morning. I totally fail. LOL.
The long and short of it is, I just want people to know that it's a lot easier to not have secrets than to it is to keep them hidden.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-27 10:13 am (UTC)I have always been VERY VERY VERY out in re: sexuality (HELLO I'm bi), and so when my mom (who is mystified but figures she can't stop me re: bisexuality) was like, "THIS BOOK MEANS YOU WANT TO BE MAIMED AND ABUSED and you have a death wish and you want them to kill you!" and all that... it BROKE me. I just had no idea how to deal with that. Still, I got out of dodge, and I was out and active in the kink community elsewhere. And I am sure my mom is not over it, but she got over it enough to start supporting me as her daughter again, you know? And she would again. And if she didn't, well, I'd deal with that too. I just NEVER want to have that happen out of the blue again if I can help it...
And unfortunately she's getting kind of less rational as time goes on.
That said--yeah. The time before my assault, when I was out as kinky and queer and participating in the community for both and everything... it was one of the happiest times of my life. Unfortunately, with the assault and everything... every single thing I used to enjoy takes a lot out of me. So... I'm kind of turtle-shelling right now, possibly til I move out of the area because the weather severely effects my health which is part of it.
But I do know that now that my life is much more compartmentalized it hurts more. So I fully intend to fix that, I just... can only take so much at a time and right now my focus is on getting through the stupid PTSD. *sigh* Not even sure it will ever go away, but at least it's scads better than it was.